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	<title>Comments on: Are we capable of portraying engaging subjects in games yet?</title>
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	<link>http://aboutgamedesign.com/2009/10/30/are-we-capable-of-portraying-engaging-subjects-in-games-yet/</link>
	<description>Several developers in one place</description>
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		<title>By: Jonas Tykesson</title>
		<link>http://aboutgamedesign.com/2009/10/30/are-we-capable-of-portraying-engaging-subjects-in-games-yet/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonas Tykesson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aboutgamedesign.com/?p=161#comment-85</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m actually really pleased that you didn&#039;t make the same mistake a lot of other people do in regard to morality: automatically trying to defend the games industry. I&#039;ve always wondered why people say &quot;You can&#039;t show this in games&quot; when it&#039;s on the news every other day. Instead of &quot;Do we have the responsibility to not show violence to kids&quot;, the question ought to have a second line &quot;or do we have the responsibility to show how it really is?&quot;.

Trying to strive towards realism in graphics and gameplay, I think games also need to get closer in other areas. Making more realistic AI is not quite necessary with good enough scripting and creating nightmare missions could lead to much more interesting situations. If you create a realistic-looking game where there are both weapons and civilians, I&#039;d say you need to be able to kill civilians. What games are not doing is punishing the player for doing so, which should also be a requirement.

I would love seeing things like friendly fire situations, trying to protect civilians and so on in games where just shooting randomly is not good enough. The nuke scene in Call of Duty 4 showed that shooter games are actually capable of provoking the player into thinking about the actual situation.

Remember, even though 15 year olds might play your game, if it&#039;s rated 18+ it&#039;s not your fault. The demographic for a realistic shooter trying to show real-world war would probably be 25-35.

/J]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually really pleased that you didn&#8217;t make the same mistake a lot of other people do in regard to morality: automatically trying to defend the games industry. I&#8217;ve always wondered why people say &#8220;You can&#8217;t show this in games&#8221; when it&#8217;s on the news every other day. Instead of &#8220;Do we have the responsibility to not show violence to kids&#8221;, the question ought to have a second line &#8220;or do we have the responsibility to show how it really is?&#8221;.</p>
<p>Trying to strive towards realism in graphics and gameplay, I think games also need to get closer in other areas. Making more realistic AI is not quite necessary with good enough scripting and creating nightmare missions could lead to much more interesting situations. If you create a realistic-looking game where there are both weapons and civilians, I&#8217;d say you need to be able to kill civilians. What games are not doing is punishing the player for doing so, which should also be a requirement.</p>
<p>I would love seeing things like friendly fire situations, trying to protect civilians and so on in games where just shooting randomly is not good enough. The nuke scene in Call of Duty 4 showed that shooter games are actually capable of provoking the player into thinking about the actual situation.</p>
<p>Remember, even though 15 year olds might play your game, if it&#8217;s rated 18+ it&#8217;s not your fault. The demographic for a realistic shooter trying to show real-world war would probably be 25-35.</p>
<p>/J</p>
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		<title>By: Arshak Ardeshir</title>
		<link>http://aboutgamedesign.com/2009/10/30/are-we-capable-of-portraying-engaging-subjects-in-games-yet/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arshak Ardeshir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aboutgamedesign.com/?p=161#comment-79</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad you liked the post.

What I meant was that we are not fully able to create enough reactions to the players actions. As the morals that I was referring to is very grey it might need more than two outcomes when a player makes a &quot;statement&quot; of his beliefs. But as I was thinking about your question in the toilet the other day I started leaning more towards that choice doesnt really need to be part of the equation to make it meaningful. Films do not offer choice, when Aeris died in FF7 there was no choice. But those were still very more moving scenes. You might even say that they were more emotional than deciding to save a Little Sister. 

But when there is no choice for the player, you, as the game designer are imparting your own morals on the player, if you give him choice there might be more room for him to find his own. 

Actually after reading your question I am unsure about the Tech-shortcomings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you liked the post.</p>
<p>What I meant was that we are not fully able to create enough reactions to the players actions. As the morals that I was referring to is very grey it might need more than two outcomes when a player makes a &#8220;statement&#8221; of his beliefs. But as I was thinking about your question in the toilet the other day I started leaning more towards that choice doesnt really need to be part of the equation to make it meaningful. Films do not offer choice, when Aeris died in FF7 there was no choice. But those were still very more moving scenes. You might even say that they were more emotional than deciding to save a Little Sister. </p>
<p>But when there is no choice for the player, you, as the game designer are imparting your own morals on the player, if you give him choice there might be more room for him to find his own. </p>
<p>Actually after reading your question I am unsure about the Tech-shortcomings.</p>
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		<title>By: Juha</title>
		<link>http://aboutgamedesign.com/2009/10/30/are-we-capable-of-portraying-engaging-subjects-in-games-yet/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Juha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aboutgamedesign.com/?p=161#comment-78</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great read! I don&#039;t have any insightful comments, but I think the points you&#039;re making are very interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great read! I don&#8217;t have any insightful comments, but I think the points you&#8217;re making are very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Arcade</title>
		<link>http://aboutgamedesign.com/2009/10/30/are-we-capable-of-portraying-engaging-subjects-in-games-yet/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arcade]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aboutgamedesign.com/?p=161#comment-74</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice post!

Very good point about showing one side of history, etc.

But I&#039;m gonna quote Black Mage from 8-bit Theatre:
- With great power comes great opportunity to abuse that power.

&quot;The state of game making has not yet reached its full potential of displaying values and portraying serious subjects. This is caused both by technologic short-comings, design short-comings and the market more looking for quick thrills and amusement.&quot;

When you say that it&#039;s partly due to technological short-comings, what are you thinking about? What are we &quot;missing&quot; as far as tech goes? I&#039;m not saying we&#039;re not, I&#039;m asking because I&#039;m not sure what you mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post!</p>
<p>Very good point about showing one side of history, etc.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m gonna quote Black Mage from 8-bit Theatre:<br />
- With great power comes great opportunity to abuse that power.</p>
<p>&#8220;The state of game making has not yet reached its full potential of displaying values and portraying serious subjects. This is caused both by technologic short-comings, design short-comings and the market more looking for quick thrills and amusement.&#8221;</p>
<p>When you say that it&#8217;s partly due to technological short-comings, what are you thinking about? What are we &#8220;missing&#8221; as far as tech goes? I&#8217;m not saying we&#8217;re not, I&#8217;m asking because I&#8217;m not sure what you mean.</p>
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